Please tell me if our culture condones this

[kavitalady]

hello, I am a new member here.

All my life I have been taught that abusing your children is okay and that our culture supports it.

Now dont get me wrong, I am all for disciplining children the proper way. A slap on the hand or butt is sometimes necessary, along with reprimanding and making a child think about their actions.

But what I am asking about is extreme-- very extreme. I am almost 22 years old and my parents had continued to abuse me. When I say abuse, it involves using methods which the police would consider to be assault-- using knives, belts, strangulation and even trying to ram my body against a wall or a door.

My entire family has told me that this is called discipline and they are doing it for my own good. But why did I always end up with welts, bruises and even scars? Is this what proper Indian culture and parenting does?

I moved out because I couldnt deal with this anymore. I know that leaving your parents home is disgraceful, but in this situation I would much rather taken disgrace than fear for my life.

Am I mistaken? Should I go back to them? Am I violating our cultural standards?

[kavitalady]

It's been a while since I posted this thread and I think it's rather interesting that although there have been views on it, noone has posted a single thing.

That makes me wonder-- does our culture truly condone this, or it's just that noone really cares much to talk about something like this, because it is commonplace in our culture where you just need to "deal" even though many don't think it's right?

I'm not here to elicit a pity response but because of my upbringing I am strongly inclined to want to REALLY know what our culture does and does not think is right in relation to this topic. I'm sure there have been others who have gone through this who post at this site, will none of them speak up?

[nameeta]

Nothing what so ever you have mentioned is a part of our culture.Our culture shows us patience and to love and teach the children, not to beat them and try to disicipline them.What the parents do is there own thinking and they are wrong if they blame it on culture.

[kavitalady]

If that is true, then why have adults and children from India, Sri Lanka, Guyana, and Trinidad have all told me that beating your children is what you need to do for disciplining? I have only come across a few people in my lifetime who were Indian and were not raised that way. Everyone else was Indian and said that is what parents do.

And if I am wrong, then why have other Indian people who my family know of ostracize me after they have found out that I have left them because they abused me? Why do they tell me that I need to still live in my parents house despite being harmed physically?

[nameeta]

I donot know where are you struck but whatever is been said to you is not true.we are in the 21st century and believe me Indian are not like this and nor is their tradition.

[Inra Shenoy]

It is true that South Asians seem to discipline their children this way. Up until i was insecondary school i received a couple of hard punches on my legs, and hard piercing pinches and wheni think back that was extremely violent. However, upon hearing what you went through i was horrified! There is no way you should have had to put up with that and it is a good thing that you've left home even if the consequences are losing your family and friends. Surely people of this metality are not ones you wish to mix with?

My dad stopped has stopped "disciplining" me now. On one occasion i confronted him about this change in behavior. He stated that it was because i acted more maturely now. However when i was smaller my brother would hit me then run into the rom that my parents were in and wait for me to rush in and hit him. To someone who did not know what was going on it woudl appear that i was hitting him for know reason. I still get in fights with my brother, but i am bigger than my father now, which is the primary reason he doesn't hit me anymore. Are you not stronger or bigger than your father? If he does it to you again threaten him, and if he doesn't back down do something physical. You seriously shoudn't ahve to put up with this, and i'm suprised you have up till recently. Good luck with whatever you decide to do!

[observer]

kavitalady the things you described your parents did to you sound extreme!

From what I've seen/heard Indian/South Asian parents are generally discriminatory and non-caring towards their daughters. Your experiences might have arisen out of that. I support your decision to move out.

[Silverbackman]

My parents beat me till I was about 12, then nothing really after that. Of course my parents and I are Malu and also christian meaning they may have different customs than the normal hindu Indian.

When I became a teenager, I assuming my parents, especially my dad got to afraid to beat me, maybe because of my size and strength (not that I would fight back or anything, but he is paranoid a bit).

Some of the stuff Kavitalady are abuse. Using knives or banging them against the door is abuse no matter what the culture. Perhaps you should tell your parents to stop using objects to discpline you, cause that is when it becomes real abuse. If they agree to stop punishing you with objects, especially something as serious as a knife, then if it really bothers you move back. Exactly what things would he punish you for anyways?

Judging your are username you are female, right? I would think by now he would have married you off ;). If they try to hastle you about leaving and "not following the culture", thell your parents they are equally as wose for not marrying you off at an age like 22.

[baboons_in_the_night]

My parents beat me black and blue when I was a child.

Didn't do much for my ego but worked wonderfully for my complexion!

:-)

[Clay Firefly]

Judging your are username you are female, right? I would think by now he would have married you off ;). If they try to hastle you about leaving and "not following the culture", thell your parents they are equally as wose for not marrying you off at an age like 22. Not to high-jack the topic, but I'm 24: does that make me an old maid? :confused:

[Silverbackman]

Not to high-jack the topic, but I'm 24: does that make me an old maid? :confused:

An old maiden you mean? Well it depends. In Indian culture it might considered a bit old, but Westerners get married a lot later. Maybe you should ask your parents if you are Indian, "why didn't you marry me off". :D

[shaomi]

Nothing what so ever you have mentioned is a part of our culture.Our culture shows us patience and to love and teach the children, not to beat them and try to disicipline them.What the parents do is there own thinking and they are wrong if they blame it on culture.

I couldn't agree more on this. Though i'm not indian, the reason why i love this culture & country so much is because it's a culture of peace, tolerance, inner-silence & deep respect for life in any of its forms... Not being Indian, it's hard for me to talk about a culture which is not mine (despite my growing interest in & knowledge of it), but i think there is an UNIVERSAL law which is that every living creature of God (or whatever you call Him/Her/It) deserves love, caring, & respect. & most of all children.

Here in Europe, many parents also consider that it's legitimate to beat, insult or disrespect children as a way to disciplinate them : the result is most of the time confused individuals who reproduce on others the violence they have been taught as being a way of life. I don't think that violence is a way of teaching ANYTHING to ANYONE. Beating children in order to educate them is most of the time an excuse to do to one's children what one would like to do to many others, but can't because of the law.
It's normal that you will find people that will condemn you if you decided not to see your parents anymore, because in any cultures (asian as well as european or others), traditions have a tendency to lose their deep meaning (i.e., for exemple, respect your parents & be grateful to them because they have raised you well), to become meaningless habits (i.e. respect your parents & be grateful to them whatever they do to you, including harm or violence). Pledging allegiance to bad parents would be like praying without understanding in one's heart the meaning of the prayer. In such a case it's better not to pray.

Violence leads to suffering, pain & mental confusion. Violence is the darkest consequence of the samsara. Someone who commits it must be at least ignored if one can escape him/her, if not condemned if one can't. Don't blame or hate your parents, pity them for what they have done to their karma by hurting you this way. But if they can't behave with love & affection, then it is legitimate to run away from them in order to protect yourself.

It's my first post on this forum, so i hope i haven't shocked anyone, but my conscience told me i had to answer to Kavitalady's post with honesty.

Be at peace, Kavitalady, with yourself. Allow yourself to live in peace, happiness & harmony. I have been a beaten child, too, & i know how difficult it is to life with this. But after darkness, light awaits to be discovered if you allow yourself to embrace it. Please feel free to e-mail or PM me if you have a need to talk about it with someone who have been through this & eventually survived it. I sincerly wish you the best.

[kavitalady]

Thanks everyone for responding to my post. At first I thought that I was the only one who experienced this or who would admit that it would happen.

As for some of your questions, yes I am female and 21. I am also the smallest person in my family which made it easy for my parents to abuse me. And NO I would never want to be "married off"!! Who knows what kind of person they would marry me off to! I'd rather marry my white boyfriend than have an arranged marriage.

I think it's really interesting that someone noted the discrimation between sons and daughters in relation to the way parents regard their children. In my family my brother who is also younger is always seen as perfect to my parents no matter what he does.

I have moved out for some time now and I also recently had a judge tell them that their behavior was wrong and to leave me alone. I'm sure by now they hate me or something but after some time they will hopefully get the help they need and realize their wrongs.

[Silverbackman]

But before we go too far to the left we need to first realize something here ;). There is nothing wrong with beating your children as long as it is in a humane way. By humane I mean spanking them on their behind or leg, or somewhere thick so more pain and less damage is done. However using a knife, banging on the door, strangulation is all abuse so yes kavitalady you made a good decision.

But we must never let these examples fool us from reality. Certianly spanking or beating is alright as long as it doesn't turn into abuse. Though I prefer not to, there is nothing wrong with it. But we must not let a few cases of abuse condem spanking as a bad punishment because in general it is okay as long as no abuse comes out of it.

[kavitalady]

I do agree Silverbackman....however you need to be careful in distinguishing the difference between "spank" and "beat". Spanking is disciplinary and when done correctly is NOT abuse. Beating is harsher, think about it....I would say to define spanking as beating is a misnomer. But I do agree.

Im not saying we should condemn spanking as abuse. BUT where my parents are from I suppose, beating is the way to go and if you dont do it, you arent being a real Indian. I have been taught that philosophy all my life and THAT is why I opened this post. I also thought it was rather strange that from the Indian community I am familiar with, this sort of behavior is condoned and even normal.

I am still in my confusion....why would our culture as a whole believe that abuse (what we have discussed) is wrong, yet it seems like almost EVERYONE from the county my parents are from think it's okay?

Anyone have a cultural explanation of this?

[baboons_in_the_night]

I did mention this earlier but no one listens:

Nothing improves your complexion more than being beaten black and blue.

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[efbya]

I think that it is a criminal act. I also think that the thought whether it is inline with our culture itself is meaningless. No one has the right to encroach into our freedom and dignity.

[Shayri]

Kavitalady,

Brutally beating a child as your parents seem to have done is definitely not part of an Indian culture. Certain people in our society do it, but it does not make it right.

And you did a good thing, moving out. Don't concern yourself with other people's remarks. After all, you have a right to take care of yourself and not be abused by others.

I am an Indian, and my parents never beat me in my life. At the most I got was a slap here and there growing up, but nothing major. And that's how should be. Good parents don't need to brutally beat their children to enforce discipline. It can be done with words, or non-physical punishments. So don't blame yourself for your parents' lack of good parenting skills.

[Silverbackman]

Kavitalady,

I am an Indian, and my parents never beat me in my life. At the most I got was a slap here and there growing up, but nothing major. And that's how should be. Good parents don't need to brutally beat their children to enforce discipline. It can be done with words, or non-physical punishments. So don't blame yourself for your parents' lack of good parenting skills.

Yes I agree that most children do not need to be physically punished, but there are a few children that are too much of rebels that do serious crimes in the family that may need physical punishment. That is not to say it should be brutal, and should only be reserved as a last result (ie if the child refuses the non-violent punishment).

[India1989]

Man I would say that Indian culture is the best in the world. Specially the thing Unity in Diversity. All religions living together from Muslims, Hindus, to CHristians and jews and Sikh and Buddhist and other religions are also present which I could name but many people knows it already.

But the thing which I don't like is arranged marriage. Many people doesn't do arranged marriage. But many people still believe in arranged marriage.

[Silverbackman]

Yes but one thing is for sure, India is home to the greatest religion: Hinduism. Hinduism is the oldest religion in the world and many astronomers use vedic cosmology as an accurate tool on how to describe the universe. Hinduism, unlike most other religions encourages knowledge while many other religions are bound on supersituion only.

Many people do not understand what Hinduism really is, a lot assume it is some polytheistic religion that worships a bunch of gods and superstitious when in fact Hinduism has the most complicated metaphysics and teaches about the Brahman, the true God and how to reach it. Notice how I call the Brahman "it", this is because Hinduism doesn't personify ultimate reality at the fundemental level.

Hinduism also teaches yoga, the most effective form of spiritual practice today!

[India1989]

India is not only the home to Hinduism but religions like Buddhism, Jainism, Sikhism all originated in INdia. It is home to world's second largest Muslim population and also enjoys considerable amount of Catholics and other christians, bahai's and Zorastrianism.

[Silverbackman]

India is not only the home to Hinduism but religions like Buddhism, Jainism, Sikhism all originated in INdia. It is home to world's second largest Muslim population and also enjoys considerable amount of Catholics and other christians, bahai's and Zorastrianism.

Yes it is a country diverse in many religions. But the backbone heart religion of the country (Hinduism) is one of the best religions in the world.

Where are you from brother?